Planning Board — October 27, 2026
0:06 Welcome to the planning board meeting on October 27th.0:11 It is currently 6:30 PM.0:14 This meeting is being recorded by the Government Access Channel.0:17 It will be replayed on Government Access Channel 97 and posted on fairhaven.tv.com.0:22 Remote participation is available through the link posted on the town website calendar as www.fairhaven-mass-ma.gov.0:36 If participants would like to speak or be recognized, click raised hand under reactions and change your name to full name to be unmuted.0:43 Please note that Zoom camera video for all participants is disabled.0:47 Thank you for cooperation in protecting the integrity of Fairhaven government meetings.0:55 Uh, the Pledge of Allegiance.1:01 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.1:17 And quorum in attendance.1:20 We have 5 members present in person and none online, so we do have a quorum.1:24 Okay.1:27 Um, I should probably say who's here too, right?1:29 Oh, oh, 6 members.1:32 Yep.1:34 So in the room we have, uh, Pat Carr, Jen, Mona, Miles, uh, Kevin, and myself, Sean Powers.1:42 Um, and no one on Zoom.1:48 The public hearing for tonight, the applicant Coastal Villages Partners LLC proposed a continuance to November 10th, 2026, due to stormwater peer review in progress by the firm Hosley Whitten.2:05 Receipt of plans, none.2:07 No other business.2:08 We review the balcony solar.2:10 Ramona.2:12 Oh, did we go over meeting minutes and correspondence?2:18 No, thank you.2:20 Oh, I jumped a couple.2:22 See?2:23 Oh my God.2:24 Like, wow, that is right over.2:26 Where was I?2:27 Okay.2:30 Any question on the meeting minutes for September 17th and September 22nd?2:35 Okay, thank you.2:36 No.2:39 Hearing none.2:41 Do I have a motion to accept the meeting minutes from September 17th and September 22nd?2:47 Are we allowed to vote on them together?2:49 Is there any issue with that?2:53 Great question.2:54 I don't think so.2:55 I think we've done it that way.2:57 Okay, great.2:59 So moved.2:59 Second.3:01 Okay.3:02 All in favor?3:03 Aye.3:04 Aye.3:05 Any opposed?3:14 So that was an official vote, right?3:21 Nobody's online.3:21 So we don't have to do it.3:23 Okay, you need to do a vote with a motion for the continuance, even though we have it in the minutes.3:29 Oh, thank you very much.3:30 Okay, we have correspondence.3:32 Yes.3:32 And we have correspondence.3:33 So correspondence, board discussion.3:37 To prioritize town meeting articles from Jess.3:42 Everybody been able to view that document?3:49 It is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 items on there.3:59 And I was kind of hoping that we could just do a simple 1 through 10.4:05 Is that agreeable to everyone?4:09 I have a question which relates to all of them.4:13 So is it appropriate to ask it now?4:18 Okay.4:19 A couple meetings ago, there was some discussion about there being an update to the property database.4:25 And I'm wondering if— is— has that been done?4:34 I don't know what you mean.4:37 I think this goes back to the conversation we were having when we started to take, take apart the use tables and lot sizes, things like that.4:47 And we needed some data to give us an idea of the whole purview here of Does anybody remember that?4:56 Yes, so I had brought that up and then I believe someone had said that Sharon was working on something like that or she had started working on something like that.5:05 Yeah, and I swear we had the Excel sheet out there somewhere.5:08 No?5:09 It was never given to me.5:12 So that's something we need to pull that again.5:16 So this, I think specifically you're asking, so lot sizes changes.5:21 Prioritized zone overlay versus— is that— that's the one.5:26 So you want to see everything that all the lots that would change?5:32 Is that— I— what I understood the second— this property database was supposed to be, was to give us an idea of the scope of what we're dealing with on a sort of area-by-area basis.5:47 Now, I might have misinterpreted this, but I do recall— I can't remember which meeting it was.5:53 But we did talk about updating this property database.5:56 It wasn't so much as saying specifically what's excluded, what's included, it's just data.6:03 So the meeting that we canceled, the controversial meeting, I had gotten that data.6:08 And I put it in a folder and said, meeting's canceled, but here's some data if you all want to look at it.6:13 So it's the assessor's database, the lot sizes.6:15 Okay, I don't know who Sharon is.6:17 Sharon Simmons.6:19 She was a private assessor's board.6:20 Oh, okay.6:23 Okay.6:23 So that's all that I know.6:25 She brought data to the meeting at one time with some lot sizes.6:30 I mean, some lots.6:31 Okay.6:31 Was it a while ago?6:33 It was.6:33 Yeah, it was.6:34 Okay, because the assessor's database, I think, is instantly updated.6:38 So it's already outdated, really, because anytime there's a property change or tax change, it's updated.6:44 So that would have been about almost like 2 months ago now, that data.6:48 But mostly what would just change is like names and ownership.6:52 So probably the lot size is the same unless like someone split a lot in the meantime.6:57 But I think it was basically, yeah, I mean, it, I don't think it has to be real-time data.7:03 Yeah.7:03 As much as giving us just an impression of what we're dealing with.7:06 Because I have no concept myself of exactly what we're dealing with.7:10 Okay.7:10 Um, now you said it was the meeting So there was a folder that was labeled August 11.7:17 I think we kept a folder for the canceled meeting, right, Danielle?7:20 It's still up there.7:21 It is.7:22 Okay, thank you.7:23 I didn't know.7:24 That's cute.7:24 You can't find it, just let me know.7:26 Okay.7:27 Thank you.7:31 Mr.7:32 Chair.7:33 So planning board prioritizing time and resources.7:39 What is our charge with all these subjects.7:44 And do we prioritize means that you possibly list the ones you feel are most important to the least important?7:53 Is that how we're doing it?7:54 Or that's kind of what— or the most important, the most things that we think need to be acted on sooner rather than later.8:02 Okay, so I was thinking about just putting numbers from 1 to 10 or something like that.8:09 But could I also ask that we go through each and every one of these titles that are on here so we know what we're prioritizing?8:18 Sure.8:19 In other words, we've just kind of delved into number 2.8:21 But yeah, I would start possibly with number 1, and then go down the list and we can mark them off 1, 2, and then figure out if we vote, which is the most more important.8:31 That's for sure.8:33 I think these are not necessarily all the same type of thing that can be lumped together in that I think there are some things that we need to do, like the 48 changes, that we don't have much choice on whether we need to move forward with that.8:46 Um, I might put the ADU in the same category there.8:50 Um, and then there are a few that we've talked through and are kind of moved down the field that are voluntary things that we've talked about, like the use table changes, lot size changes, which is going to be affected by the vote next week on question 7, which could change lot sizes statewide.9:06 And then there are a couple that we've kind of talked about but haven't really done much real work on in terms of data center and canopy solar.9:18 I'm not sure what we've talked about balcony solar, we've talked about some other solar, I don't know if we've talked about canopy solar, which I assume is parking lots, right?9:27 Correct.9:28 And then cottage communities, which Mattapoisett has recently passed, we haven't discussed in the planning board meeting at all.9:37 So I think we're probably looking at, you know, what are some things that we have to do, like 40A, and don't have a ton of choice on?9:47 And then what are however many things that we want to decide to make a run at in town meeting and try to convince people that it's worth changing?9:58 I'll throw it out there just to get So that we can get started too.10:04 But like, I'll make a recommendation for 40A number 1, and then protected— like I do.10:12 Like I'm asking is without just taking these titles and what you're thinking possibly could be the thinking of the board, but at least put out exactly what it is that we're looking at.10:24 And then we as the board can take a vote and say, this is what our priorities are, want to just go down the list, label them all 1 through 10.10:33 And then you can itemize them and get a format from there.10:37 Okay, I think, yeah.10:40 Let's give it a shot and see where we come up.10:42 So the use table changes regarding allowable uses.10:48 Are everyone— is everyone familiar with that spreadsheet?10:51 Right, just for the viewers, Ted Robitz, our consultants, had produced some recommended changes to update the use table, which has been greatly out of date for many years, to add some modern business uses, many of which are already in town, but just not referenced in the use table.11:08 And there's also the possibility of legalizing some things in certain zones that are not currently allowable, and folks have to seek an exemption for.11:21 Like, for example, you know, corner stores or cafes in the center of town, I don't think are I think are nos right now under the RA.11:28 But we have some that are already grandfathered in.11:31 And obviously, if anybody wanted to do something like that, thrilled to.11:35 Would we want to make those changes?11:39 So in my opinion, that's, let's say, number 3.11:45 We're going to discuss it all the way around.11:48 Anyone wants to— do we want to just go through— Pat, are we asking to go through quickly what each of these are?11:53 Or do we want to get that if anybody has anything on this?11:55 Can we actually put this up for everyone to see?11:58 Even— that would be great.12:00 Sorry, that way people know what we're talking about.12:03 Yeah, that'd be great.12:06 Sorry, it's a good idea.12:08 Well, yeah, and then I would say, you know, Mr.12:14 Chair, if I may, like, just go through very quickly, everybody on the board, say what you think is, uh, not given a number right now, but just the what the definition is that we're looking at.12:29 And then we can surmise through our board what we're looking at as far as use table goes.12:33 Okay, thank you.12:36 I think Miles explained it well.12:37 So I'll pass on use table.12:39 But one question on that, and it's a question that I think we all would need to answer ourselves is, what would we want to tackle in that?12:48 Would we want to go through the entire thing and like say, hey, here's our brand new use table across the board?12:53 Or just grab a few key components that we think would be an easy sell, an easy lift on our end, such as corner store shops in the center of town, and get those in and move on?13:06 Or do we— would we want to do a deep dive all the way through it and have it have a real complete use table?13:13 I'm not advocating hard one way or the other.13:16 Maybe once we get through the entire list, we'll realize how much we have on our plate and can just make that decision then.13:22 So I think we had the ones, the new ones that he suggested making changes to, were loop.13:27 So I would just suggest anything in the loop.13:30 Fair point.13:33 Are we still talking about focusing on specific zones?13:39 Right now we're talking about use table changes for RA, RI, RC, and MU.13:44 Yeah.13:48 My feeling is if we're going to bring it to town meeting, I would want to say, look, we're going to make our once-a-decade update of the use table here, or however long it's been, a lot longer than that.13:59 Let's just get it done if we're going to present it to town meeting.14:03 And is it this coming town meeting?14:05 Are we talking about spring?14:07 Spring?14:14 Any other discussion on these table tables?14:16 No, I wouldn't be opposed to doing the whole thing.14:19 It might be good to not have to revisit it again at a later date.14:23 Be able to say that we've done it.14:25 We voted, it went through, moving on to next business.14:30 The other thing that I don't quite understand about this is canopy— so excuse me, data center, for example, they're already talking about it.14:39 So I'm gonna pause you just because I think Pat wanted to take them one at a time.14:45 And yeah, the very top one.14:48 Actually, it's hold the thunder.14:53 So I think that What Ted had pointed out is, is something that the planning board didn't actually look at as a whole.15:04 And it would be a monumental task to do all the districts and all the changes of the use changes.15:12 But with that said, I don't— I think we should possibly, like, if we're going— and a lot of these use changes are going to be the result of whatever the lot size priority zone changes are in 40A.15:28 So we can discuss this now and then come to a more finite point as far as what really has to be looked at.15:38 And if they're using a, a format of all districts for this 40A zone change, I think it's incumbent upon the board to look at each district because they're all different.15:53 RA is different than RR, different than mixed use.15:57 I mean, I think we have to take it segment by segment before and work on this for a few months.16:05 And with that said about the data center or BES or those things that aren't even included into Mass General Law by now, if they start moving towards that, Maybe we should possibly at least start thinking about like getting some use tables for that.16:21 Another one was storage centers that came up in front of zoning at one time that they didn't have that labeled as like there was only one in town.16:32 Well, now there's 3.16:33 So I think we have to address and take it segment by segment just to be able to work on so we don't lose focus over the whole big picture because It's monstrous.16:43 It's a monstrous task.16:45 And if we do it segment by segment, once we find out what happens with Massachusetts law, I think we stand a better chance of having that backing up whatever we're moving forward with.16:57 Yeah, I think there are a couple things if we're just talking about use table.17:01 One is the fact that it's so horribly out of date.17:04 We could obviously make some changes right now.17:08 I do think that there's a lot going on that we are not totally aware of on the state level.17:15 And some of that's going to be prescribed.17:18 So why, why spend our time right now running those things down?17:24 I feel like we're kind of combining use table and lot sizes.17:28 Use table is types of businesses that are allowed in different zoning areas.17:33 Lot sizes, we've talked about shrinking the total footprints and the frontages for different businesses in general in different parts of town.17:45 The ballot measure will affect single-family homes, but the ballot measure is not going to affect business lot sizes, which is, you know, one thing about, you know, an industrial zone.17:58 Are we going to shrink the footprint that's required For something like that.18:03 So I think uses are the types of what's allowed.18:07 The lot sizes are how big does that property need to be?18:09 How much frontage does it need to have?18:12 How much setback does it need to have?18:13 So just 2 different types of things.18:15 Yeah, I do follow that.18:17 But my— where I'm struggling a little bit is, and I can't think of a particular example other than, excuse me, the data center, but I'm not talking about that.18:27 What aren't there going to be things that at the state level are going to be preordained, like they already are starting to be, that we do not yet, as of this time, know exactly what they're going to be.18:43 So we can only guess at some of that stuff by trying to flag what's going on at the state level.18:50 I would say for lot sizes, yes, for use table, no.18:52 Yeah.18:52 So like, I'll give you an example of a lot.18:55 So one of the things he put in was bakery.18:59 And then he has— so that would be new for us, bakery.19:03 And then under RR, he has SP.19:08 Under RA, he has N. Under RB, he has N. RC, he has Y.19:14 So that's, that's what we're looking to add.19:18 We don't have one that says bakery right now.19:19 So, so do I take this to mean we're going to do— since it was mentioned that the used— the tables are horribly out of date.19:31 Is what we're suggesting just bringing it up to where we should be at now, including some things that are already there, which we haven't really codified?19:42 I'm going to say correct.19:43 Yes, I agree with you.19:44 Yeah.19:45 And I think part of the benefit from our previous conversations was just to say to businesses that may be considering, you know, where should we locate, to say that Fairhaven is open to You know, like a brewpub, I don't think is on the existing use table and things like that, just to kind of put out our shingle that we are open for business when it comes to some of these other things and hope to send a message that, you know, we're looking for new businesses to come in and new types of businesses to come in.20:14 So I would say that this is just not dealing with businesses.20:18 There's There's many districts in town.20:22 I'm looking at them right now.20:24 RA, RB, RC, parks, business, industrial, agriculture, mixed use.20:31 So there are probably— I'm just going to guess— maybe 125 or 150 different use tables that are on there.20:40 And they, they have to be taken a look at one by one in each district.20:45 So It may not, it may not, um, coincide with what they're talking about, but the law changes— and I'm not talking about setbacks or, or different square footages, I'm talking about what can be used or what can be applied there without a special permit, with a special permit, or no.21:05 So I think we have to take it line by line.21:07 That's why I say just, just the blue lines though, correct?21:10 I'm not looking at Ted's, I'm looking at the Fairhaven mix, the use table.21:14 Okay, right now, but So if you're going to incorporate all this, that's it.21:18 I'm incorporating just the blue lines, just the items that have been changed, or what Ted proposed to be correct.21:26 No, correct.21:28 I mean, if we want to take on more, it's a lot.21:32 Yeah, that's why I say I think it's still a lot.21:35 We made this suggestion probably about 4 or 5 meetings ago before we started talking about possibly bringing it to this meeting.21:41 Let's start taking segment by segment, like a couple people on the board do this or whatever, so that we can attack this in a little different measure.21:51 If you don't feel comfortable with that, at least just take one district at a time, go through what these changes are going to come in front of us, and then vote whether or not we think that's a valid change to be brought to plan and board.22:04 That way you're narrowing down what you're going to bring in front, uh, because Don's the one that's gonna have to sell this at that town meeting.22:11 And change in town never comes easy.22:14 So we have to make sure that what we're doing here is just narrowing down what the important things are that we— then I— we can always go back afterwards and find those other ones and include bakeries or include this or that.22:28 I'm talking about the change uses that was brought by the consultant, uh, earlier this year.22:34 Yeah, I think playing off of that, it would behoove us to break it down by district and have that posted as part of the agenda by district so that if people are concerned specifically about one thing, they can come and take part in those meetings, however we want to set it up.22:56 You know, I could imagine that 90% of it, or maybe 99% of it, someone couldn't really care that much about, but that 1%, they really have strong feelings about.23:05 And you don't want people to feel blindsided at town meeting, that never goes over well.23:12 So the more we can get the word out, the better.23:16 And if we can make it specifically section by section like that, I think that's better than saying, hey, we might talk about the thing you care about, or we might not.23:25 Come on down if you have a lot of time on your hands.23:27 Be better if we can kind of earmark things.23:30 Yeah, we put them in blocks because if you're going to open this up to the public, it's specific.23:35 Like West Island's not going to come to talk about what's going on in the center of town historically, or they're not going to talk about New Boston Road.23:42 But if you put them in the segments and the districts, and then you hammer this out, you make a public— okay, this is your forum to come in and speak, then we make a more educated decision on what we're going to bring to town meeting.23:56 And there's compliance with people who are actually supporting this rather than against You lost me a little bit.24:05 So, um, so you mean take the spreadsheet, sort it by blue, and just do RR?24:14 Uh, well, I don't think the blue isn't— the blue is everything.24:18 So you're saying everything is— yeah, blue is everything that Ted's made changes to, right?24:24 How do I understand?24:27 Well, he hasn't only made changes to RR.24:30 No, he hasn't.24:31 You can see— correct.24:32 So I'm thinking we take the changes that he's proposed, we find some sensible ways to kind of organize them by subject, whether it's district or whether it's another category that we use, and that we break out our discussions that way so that it's not just talk about all of them at once.24:53 It gives us more time to dig in separately without having to deal with it all at once, kind of, and do it piecemeal so that if there's— if there are people in the community where they have strong feelings about it, whether they're a business owner or resident, they're concerned about their neighborhood, they're interested in what their possibilities might be, they can decide then whether or not they want to be here for that conversation or tune into it.25:22 I think that's a great, a great way of sort of— this is extremely complex, right?25:30 We're only looking at RA, RI, RC, and MU.25:33 To Pat's point, not everybody's going to be interested across the board.25:38 But we're going to be very interested in trying to get this information out to the people who are directly affected just in these areas.25:45 And I love the idea of just going to say on the agenda, we're going to focus on XYZ, whether it's RA or whatever.25:54 Um, and then we just— we're all kind of looking at the same thing at the same time.25:59 So I think I understood that one.26:01 I think so.26:02 So we're going to sort on RA, any blue in RA, and any blue in activity or use, and that's what we're going to look at for one meeting.26:11 Yeah, so I know we're saying meetings, but could we make it a little more like I want to say like more like personal, like kind of like a workshop.26:21 Like people can actually come in and talk to us, not make it so formal like this.26:27 Almost like I liked when they did, um, the West Island and they kind of had everybody in front.26:32 Or maybe we don't need to be that, but something like that where people like almost like the coffee talks or coffee things that they did for ADU and 40R, whatever it was.26:44 Um, something like that where people can come in and casually talk to us and it doesn't have to be as serious as as this and, and kind of tell us what they want in their neighborhood or not want.26:54 Or I think if we get— excuse me, Mr. Chida, but he's got this broken down right with his analysis.27:02 If you take segment by segment, not all of this, choose RA, get that district, all the information, put a public thing out there that we're having a forum, not so much a meeting, a forum, a public forum Or like a, you know, town hall meeting or whatever.27:19 Come in and give your ideas, what you're hearing, and because this is affecting you, let people bring all their ideas and bring that back to the table again and pick and choose what we think is very important, what we heard the most, and apply it towards the district.27:37 Is that— Don, is that something you would be comfortable doing?27:44 Is that something we can— would you be comfortable talking about, you know, Ken-O commercial in an RA and why we said, or why Ted said, and/or— Sure.28:03 And what— and you mean in having a public workshops?28:07 Yeah, I mean, having a meeting on it, or, um, yeah, we could do it.28:14 It has to be a public hearing.28:15 That's why we couldn't do it here.28:16 I'll have to advertise it.28:17 But I mean, I just— not something so like formal like this.28:21 Like people just kind of like come in in the auditorium and just kind of— it's just a conversation, you know.28:26 And then we, we're not going to make everybody happy.28:29 So if we at least listen to everyone, take what everyone's saying into consideration, bring it back to the table so everyone knows we did our due diligence and, and we're listening what you want in your neighborhood or not want in your neighborhood or what you want in town.28:42 We did our, we did our homework, we did our due diligence for you.28:45 I'm uncomfortable with what we're talking about.28:49 Not that I am rejecting any more information.28:53 What, what you're suggesting here, which is a good suggestion, I— SERPD does this all the time, right?28:59 They go out, but they do their homework before they open it up to the public.29:05 Um, and, and the whole idea is, is to get a general framework.29:10 First of all, we said we got to prioritize because time is of the essence, right?29:15 So, um, the, the idea of having the workshops are great if you're trying to get some initial take on what your design is, because if you just let people randomly talk and there's no structure that they can talk to or from.29:33 So that's why we're picking— sorry to interrupt you, but that's why we're picking like RA.29:37 So one night is solely going to be focused on RA.29:40 So you're going to come in and that's what we're going to talk about and that's what we're going to listen to.29:44 I'm going to pause everybody real quick too.29:46 I'm wondering if we're getting off topic.29:48 Are we getting off?29:49 Possibly, because we're just supposed to rate these, um, and now we're talking about— and, and I apologize too, I'm not 100% awake.29:59 Yeah, that's why I was a little confused because I thought we were gonna go through the whole list.30:03 I know.30:03 Yeah, I, I think we went a little— yeah, going a little too deep.30:06 Yeah, we dove into that one.30:09 Um, so does everyone unders— unders— understand, um, the use tables?30:17 So, um, so how would you use tables according to TED?30:21 Correct.30:22 Or according to the TOM?30:24 According to Ted.30:25 And which use tables are you talking about?30:26 That's the ones that Ted did on the RARRMU.30:31 And he did, he did them all in the spreadsheet.30:35 So you're going to tackle, you're going to tackle all of them, like in business and also industrial and all that?30:41 I think that's up for a later debate.30:43 I think we just put this in, in an order now.30:46 Okay.30:46 Is this, is this a number 1 priority for people, or is this a number 3 for people?30:53 Number 5 for people.30:57 Well, can we discuss the rest of them and then prioritize them?31:02 Because, I mean, you're asking us to talk about— No, sure.31:06 Why not?31:09 Number 2 is lot size changes.31:12 Prioritize zone and overlay versus SP.31:16 So I think the 2 things being discussed here are one, the lot size changes that Ted had laid out for us and presented to us.31:27 And then he had also suggested a— was it like a Route 6 overlay from roughly the high school towards the center of town?31:36 That would be a special district.31:39 So I kind of see those as 2 separate items.31:43 Okay.31:44 I don't have an opinion either way on that one.31:52 And again, are we doing the whole kit and caboodle?31:56 Are we just focusing on RA, RC, I, and MU?32:02 What does this really mean?32:05 That's great, Jane.32:07 This was— I didn't put this together, so I really don't know.32:12 I think she just put everything that's come up.32:15 TED stuff, stuff that's coming from conversation.32:18 It's not numbered because we didn't want to give— look like anything was a priority.32:23 Yeah, but no, Jessica threw this list.32:24 I asked her to put on cottage communities because you had brought it up.32:27 So I don't know if we really talked about it, but it's kind of a new and emerging thing.32:34 So just on this one here, lot sizes, priorities, prioritized zone, which is good, overlay versus SP.32:41 What's SP?32:42 I think it's a special permit.32:44 Okay, so an overlay district that you're using is a whole huge thing that has to go through town meeting.32:54 And also you have to have consultants.32:57 And like it did with 40R, it took 2 and a half years to get an overlay.33:01 So I don't think that's a— I don't think that's something that we can delve into right now, unless you want to put that as something that you're looking to do in the future.33:10 Yeah, that's a— I think it's gonna be number 10 for me.33:18 No coffee hours for you.33:24 Any other questions on that one?33:27 The best bylaw?33:30 I meant solar or new section.33:36 Did you skip the lot sizes though?33:39 No, that's when we just went over.33:41 I thought we said— someone said the lot sizes is different than the Route 6 overlay?33:47 Well, yeah, I would probably treat those as 2 separate things.33:51 Lot sizes, I think, are a little bit of an easier lift.33:54 I think the overlay— and I think I'm not speaking for Jess, but I'd heard her express some concern about doing another overlay district so soon after 40R.34:04 So I think if we wanted to take a look at some lot sizes, even for specific uses, even only in, you know, RA or something like that, Um, or, you know, let's just do single-family homes in RA, hypothetically, and let's do, you know, shrink some industrial lot sizes and just do those 2 things in those specific areas.34:26 We could, we could figure out what a bite-sized piece of that is if we wanted to.34:33 So I would say number 2 and number 6 are actually combined because you're not going to do anything with lot sizes until you find out what the 40-hour change is.34:40 That's what I was thinking as well.34:41 Okay, until we get that handed down from us, we probably shouldn't even be discussing because that's what the, that's what the motion was for the board to not talk about that until we get it.34:50 So I agree too.34:52 Okay, thank you.34:53 Makes sense.34:54 All right, so, um, back to best bylaw.34:59 I think that's another thing that's under discussion right now.35:04 There's been a lot of talk at the state level.35:07 Yeah.35:08 And we do have a— don't let me jump I just jumped in too, but we did get something from the state, well, a template, right?35:16 So there is a template out there for us to use.35:19 I do have homework for everyone about that, but I'll wait till we get to the actual, like, agenda item.35:28 And we get— we have that as an agenda item.35:31 But, um, is there a preference on, on where I would like to have the dentist speak about this because she's already done 2 months worth of research on it.35:43 So she'd probably be the most knowledgeable.35:44 I mean, personally, I think it's an easy lift.35:47 I think we could do that, no problem.35:49 I mean, somebody's on my street with storage, has a battery.35:53 It's pretty cool.35:54 I'll tell you if you want to go look at it.35:56 Okay.35:57 So I think that's an easy lift that could easily either— I think we have to do it for spring town meeting.36:05 I think it should be done because the state, the force, you know, make their own rules and do it upon themselves.36:11 So I think it'd be easier if we actually had the say in it.36:14 So I think we should have that done by town meeting.36:16 And I think it's an easy lift.36:17 So we could put that down on the list and have it done and ready.36:20 Okay.36:21 That's my personal opinion.36:23 I don't know how anyone else feels about it.36:24 The one I, I just need to understand, because this seems like a strange process.36:30 We've got the state Um, sort of creating this big structure around all sorts of stuff.36:39 And then meanwhile, we're— we are also in line with some of these changes.36:44 Obviously, BEST is important, as is canopy solar, as all that stuff.36:49 So my question is, um, and this has been the question all along in my mind, why are we talking about, um, what what we should do if the state is already working on that and may have some criteria that we haven't considered or that we'll have to redo.37:12 I don't know, because it seems like it's putting the cart before the horse.37:16 If the process is that the state tells us what we have to, the minimum requirement is, and if we believe that we can meet it and we're now adding some, and then some, I think that's great.37:33 But if, if we are doing something that doesn't meet the minimum, then, uh, it seems like we've wasted time.37:40 Do you guys know— so the state gave us a template, so we either can adopt the template and kind of put in our own, you know, our own structure in the template.37:50 So this is everyone's homework if you want to start looking at it.37:53 I was going to pass it out with— so they're not going to propose their own guidance eventually.37:57 There's just something I think that I'd like to just add to this conversation.38:01 So, as of like October 1st, I think the state did another one of those kind of like, you are all doing this now, and they launched a dual permitting process for battery storage facilities.38:19 So, they are doing it.38:23 We— I don't think we would ever have to change our bylaws if we didn't want to.38:26 If we don't, we'll just go by their process without— we can't, we can't do anything but that.38:34 If we have our own bylaw, then we have a little more protection as long as it's not unreasonable according to the state.38:44 So it's like this fine line between making sure we have setbacks and we have certain tiers to, you know, be protective of Fairhaven without being unreasonable.38:53 If we don't do it, we don't have to, but I think it would be smart to, you know, protect the town in any way that we can.39:03 But so, so when you say protect, help me out here.39:07 What, what is our downside?39:09 I mean, what, what are we protecting ourselves from?39:13 Like setbacks where battery facilities of certain sizes can go.39:19 So if we say X, and the town says, No, it should be Y.39:25 You mean the state?39:26 I'm sorry, the state.39:27 Yeah.39:28 They, they say it should be Y.39:31 What do we do?39:31 What have we protected ourselves from?39:33 Because we have to abide by that, don't we?39:36 Well, sure.39:39 But the model bylaw is sort of tells us a little bit what they're thinking.39:45 And there's a lot of information that we can look up and find out what does the state— there's already been court cases around this.39:52 So what a town says is the setbacks, the court might say, oh, that's unreasonably burdensome.39:59 So you can't do that.40:01 So, but we still have some wiggle room to say we want battery storages in this zone, not that zone.40:09 And those are the things that we can propose.40:12 And hopefully we can do it in a way that we wouldn't be sued because we're overly restrictive.40:17 But I mean, if we ever felt like that, we could get guidance from the state as well.40:23 Okay, so my takeaway is that we're going— we're going to be working.40:30 First of all, we're going to have our ears to the ground as to what's happening minute by minute at the state level, right?40:35 I think that's happened.40:36 It's like it's already happened.40:37 It's like happened.40:38 That's what you're talking about.40:39 Yeah.40:40 And then now, the best thing that you handed out a couple weeks ago, was that a state format?40:48 Or so that's— so that was actually months, because then they came out with a new proposal, they added an extra tier.40:55 So it's based on tiers, and then it's based on kilowatts.40:58 So then it would actually make people accountable to register.41:04 So if it was a different kilowatts, we would have to see a site plan review, we would see the setback, we would actually know, because right now we don't know anything.41:12 I mean, people could be putting them anywhere.41:14 We don't really have a say.41:16 Um, it would almost be— and then if they don't like what we say, if we say no, then they can bring it to the state, right?41:22 They go to the state, the state can overrule us, but we did our due diligence and we know what we're talking about because we worked on it, and we have a bylaw to protect us, to protect the residents.41:33 I mean, I think it's a good idea.41:35 Anytime we can offer anyone protection, I like it.41:40 So are we fully aware yet of what the state's final thing is?41:48 We are.41:49 We are.41:50 Okay, so, so we know how much freedom they're in theory giving us.41:55 We could cross the line a little bit and see if they push back, but we probably have a pretty good idea as to what our ability is to tweak things.42:03 Is that correct?42:04 Um, Because, you know, for instance, when I think about Fairhaven, I'm like, all right, battery storage.42:09 The first thing that I think of is what if you have a home that's on a raised platform because you're so close to the water?42:15 Can you have your battery storage in the garage that's underneath your home on the cement platforms?42:21 What happens if we have a storm and your battery gets washed inland and the corrosiveness or whatever?42:29 Like, these are the things I'm thinking of that pertain to Fairhaven that wouldn't pertain to You know, another town, it is like, are those areas where we have wiggle room where we can say, okay, the state's allowing us, if you have a battery and you're next to a wetland, here's what you can and can't do.42:44 If you have a battery and you're on the right, almost on the coast, here's what you can and can't do.42:49 And maybe we can tweak those types of things to fit our town.42:53 If we, if we have a good idea as to what they're saying now, maybe it is something we can get ready and prioritize.43:02 I'm looking for wins that, you know, I think, I think we— this is something that I think would have broad support.43:08 I can't imagine someone being angry about it, especially if we could do things like, hey, yeah, we might get a once in 100-year hurricane, but if we do, we're making sure that people are doing X, Y, and Z with their batteries ahead of time to get it approved.43:25 But it is one of those things, like going back to what Mona was saying, If we have, you know, I'm checking things off that list like, okay, lot size changes, um, 48 changes.43:40 I think those are things that we shouldn't— I don't even know if we should prioritize those today.43:45 Like, right to the side, we can prioritize everything else.43:48 Doesn't mean we won't— they might end up number one, but we don't know what we don't know yet, what the state says.43:54 So I think it's good to wait on that.43:56 We may not need to change a damn thing.43:59 And we can just say we don't even have to do this at town meeting.44:01 The state did it.44:02 It's done.44:03 It's acceptable.44:04 Let's move everything up a number.44:08 I can't remember, Jim, but isn't the state setback like 50 feet for one of the tiers?44:15 So that's, that's not that far.44:17 So those are the little things that I think you could sell at town meeting because you could say, hey, if we don't have this, it could default to the state.44:25 And this is so that— so in some ways, I feel like if we simplify things enough, people could understand it.44:31 And I just want to throw out there, you're right, we don't have to make the changes, but the state's working on the ADU changes again.44:36 So, you know, we don't— we have a lot of things right now that we just refer to the state.44:43 So to your point, so just what you were talking about, protected ADU changes.44:53 So a couple years ago, we were talking about all the restrictions that we had with ADUs.44:57 And we sent a format to the town meeting for a bylaw change.45:03 It was kind of convoluted, and it got shot down.45:06 And at that meeting, it was discussed that that's going to be a byright on February 22.45:12 It took them a full year, and many, many meetings with a lot of staff from different towns to give their input.45:21 So they could finalize what is going to be allowed or by right in state.45:26 So you can change a little bit with the ADU changes, but if you go too far or if you're making it extremely hard financially for someone to do this, the state's going to kick back and say you're up for a lawsuit and you're going to be in trouble with this.45:43 So I just think we have to like tread lightly on this and And the, and the, and the best, or the amended solar, a new section that's coming in.45:52 I'm not sure if it was residential or industrial they were talking about as far as the battery storage.46:00 And the reason why I say that is, if they're, if they're prioritizing the industrial end of it, and that takes out the equation for somebody putting a battery storage in their yard, and that's maybe something that we take and we put our bylaw change in there.46:16 For the setbacks that are protecting people, but also not only protecting people but allowing people to be able to use an initiative that's going to go green, that's going to— can I pause you for one second too?46:29 I just want to stay on the, on the rating because we're supposed to be rating the best, and then we have best on the agenda for later in the evening.46:37 So, okay, if we could just stick with the ratings.46:39 I'm good with that.46:40 Yep.46:41 Thank you.46:42 Thanks for shutting me down.46:43 I would have gone on.46:49 Any, any, anything else on BES?46:53 Moving on to data center.46:56 Are there any strong feelings on where— or questions on this, on where this should be rated?47:01 Or— I mean, sorry.47:03 Isn't the state doing a lot with that right now too?47:07 Yeah.47:09 I mean, I think most people have strong feelings about this topic.47:14 But I think who knows what the state's going to do.47:19 I actually read an article today that New Bedford just completely shut down data centers and was like, and they said no, absolutely not, because it would give time for the planning director, it'd give a pause for the planning director to actually look into it.47:38 And, you know, do more research, figure out what the state was doing.47:41 And I actually liked that they literally just put a pause.47:44 It was city council that put a pause on it.47:48 And I, and I like that idea.47:50 I think it would just shut it down for the town or shut it down for New Bedford.47:54 I think maybe we should look into something like that.47:58 Does anybody know anything about that?48:00 So Governor Healey She released a new policy that developed— local approval must come first.48:09 Developers must secure formal community benefits agreements with the host community and receive local approval before any state-level permitting can begin.48:17 So that's a pretty hard state rule about that.48:21 We would already have to have a community benefits agreement before they could even start moving forward with that.48:27 So Just while I'm talking, we haven't done a ton of work on the data centers yet.48:34 I don't feel like that, that this is something that's necessarily breathing down our throats.48:38 I would probably put it lower on my list, and especially with this Healy policy.48:43 Yeah, I think, uh, with data centers, every— it's true, there's a million things going on at this time, and there are two, two separate, uh, ways to look at this.48:55 One is, um, uh, in Ohio, for instance, they have something like 29 huge data centers.49:05 Um, so there's the huge data center, and then there are the little ones that likely, if we're going to have a data center, it's going to be small because we don't have that kind of land.49:15 I think I've— yeah, I think I've heard the other, the other flip side of that too, but The only thing they're building now is the huge ones.49:23 It's for AI.49:24 It's, it's not for anything else.49:27 That's what I've heard.49:28 But, well, yeah.49:30 Oh, really?49:31 Yeah.49:31 I don't know if you've heard about small ones being built, but no, not, not particularly, not specifically.49:36 But I was going back to a conversation about the data center that Fairhaven has just for its business purposes.49:45 Yeah.49:45 And we kind of have that already as a Right now we have a bylaw for just municipal only, I believe so.49:51 Oh, does it?49:53 Yeah, it would.49:55 So small would be— is it very specific as to what it is?50:00 Just municipal?50:02 Yeah, I think it's just municipal.50:04 I can't look it up right now because I'm not on the web, but we can just check e-code.50:07 But yeah, I think it's already there just for muni.50:14 So for me, that's another low one.50:17 A low one slash the state is heavily— yeah, all over it.50:21 Yeah.50:22 Um, it's good that it sounds like they're erring towards local control before the state will even look at it.50:28 Um, I wish a lot of things would, frankly.50:31 But, um, and, and I think it could— you know, one of the things that they're doing with this, and I, I don't want to get too far off topic, is, um, in a lot of countries they're actually using the ocean to put in closed-circuit cooling systems.50:45 China is doing that.50:46 So nobody's beating down the door now, but someday they might, just because of our proximity to open ocean.50:55 But I'll probably be dead and gone by then, so someone else will be on the planning board dealing with that.51:03 Yeah, let's say off the planning board.51:08 Technology's got a long way to go.51:09 Anything else on data center?51:12 All right, how about canopy solar?51:14 Any questions on canopy solar?51:18 This come up because of the rec center?51:20 They wanted to do the canopy solar at the rec?51:23 Okay.51:24 All right.51:24 So I also think there's some more funding becoming available for canopy solar.51:29 Yeah, we look at all the space, open space we have over school parking lots and things like that.51:35 Why not?51:36 Yeah.51:37 What I've heard about canopy solar is that it's just very expensive compared to rooftop or other methods that you have to have them up very high.51:45 And it's just an infrastructure-intensive way to do it.51:48 Yeah.51:49 Don't they have that in place at BCC?51:52 I was thinking that.51:53 Yeah.51:55 Yeah.51:56 A lot of the colleges have it.51:59 Great idea.52:00 Not— never opposed to solar, but, um, without a specific plan, and it's not something that we've been working on, would probably be lower on my list.52:10 I was just responding to the fact that there is, um, there are funds, uh, available, you know, and, and that's like, uh, being prompted because of potential funding.52:21 But, um, I don't think that's— I don't think we should not consider what the state is doing in terms of opening up funding opportunities to also include that in our thinking.52:34 No, and I agree.52:35 If there was a— if there was something that came up, um, if we knew of something coming on, that I would probably— that would probably raise on my list.52:45 But right now, that's pretty low on my list.52:47 I don't know anything going on.52:49 So That's how I feel.52:51 But if you feel like it should be higher up on the list, absolutely.52:56 Well, I don't know specifically.52:58 I just heard that there's more funding.53:00 I haven't gotten delved in, but I'm just saying that that's a consideration.53:04 Because if there's funding available, obviously, we'd want to get it.53:11 Yeah, absolutely.53:13 And so Just, we have only so big of a plate for Springtown meeting.53:20 What do we want to try to fit on it?53:21 Yeah.53:22 To that point, and we don't have to do it right now, but can we determine how many meetings we have as a board between now and between when we have to get in our asks to town meeting?53:35 Because— thank you.53:37 Yeah, it would be good to know once we make our decisions as to what we want to tackle.53:42 And give ourselves some wiggle room in case meetings are canceled through storms or whatever.53:47 Like, here's how much work we need to get done.53:50 And then at a certain point in time, we need to say, how are we looking with this workload?53:55 Do we need to cut back things on our, on our number list?53:59 Or are we good?54:00 Maybe we can add some things.54:08 48 changes, priority changes recommended by staff, which is what we discussed with Heather White at the previous meeting.54:18 Yeah.54:22 Were those new redline changes helpful?54:28 I was pretty good with the old one too.54:30 But okay.54:32 Yeah.54:33 I don't want to hear that.54:39 Boston.54:40 Just to give everybody awareness, Thursday, ZBA is having a meeting with Heather about the 48 changes as well.54:49 Everybody from the planning board is invited there.54:51 And if you have any questions, it's going to be more in depth than what we got with redline changes.54:57 There's going to be specific questions that have been asked and answered.55:01 And more guidelines from our town attorney on how the zoning board is going to go through.55:06 But if you think that you want to be at that meeting and you want to speak at that meeting, you're more than welcome.55:11 I also extended the invitation as the chair from the DBA extended that invitation to the Conservation Committee as well too, even though it doesn't— it's not under their jurisdiction, but it seems to involve all 3 of our boards all the time.55:26 So it'll be good informational meeting.55:28 And if you have any questions, by all means, raise your hand if you want to come.55:32 Any other questions on 40A?55:36 ADU changes?55:39 Anybody have any questions on ADU changes?55:43 I mean, what is ADU changes?55:45 What are we— are we proposing changes?55:48 I think the state is.55:49 Okay, so we'll just see what they have to say, then, I would imagine, because we're not trying to propose different changes to what the ADU Bylaw orders right now, right?55:58 Not out of order, am I?56:00 That's correct.56:01 No, yeah, no, I just wanted to remind— there's so much going on, just remind people that I had sent a letter on our behalf about the proposed ADU changes that they're making.56:12 So I had shared the redline.56:14 And, and I don't know, I have a feeling that she's, you know, because they went out of their way to get to advertise that they were— they're making changes, I think they probably got a lot of feedback.56:27 So we'll see what the final outcome is.56:31 Okay, it'd be interesting to see the process.56:35 The next one is parking.56:39 I want to hand this one over to Miles because I've heard parking come out of you a few times.56:47 No, and I'm a volunteer with South Coast Places for People.56:50 We did work with New Bedford, which recently greatly reduced its, its parking minimums.56:55 That we mandate new homes, new apartments, new businesses build tons of parking, more than they will ever possibly need.57:05 I think you can go through our parking regulations, and they're very specific down to, you know, 3— like banks need 1 parking space per 300 square feet of business.57:20 And I think you can just look around at that, you know, Rockland Trust has a sea of parking behind it.57:25 St. Anne's has a sea of parking behind it that is absolutely never used.57:29 A lot of other businesses in town have far more parking than they will ever, ever use on their busiest day.57:35 So we have not discussed this much with the planning board yet.57:40 But it would not take too much work to go into some of those specific requirements.57:46 And, you know, cut the parking requirements in half.57:49 Very easily.57:51 It's interesting going through the parking regulations too, because we have all sorts of things in here like the use of asphalt paving shall be minimized.57:57 And when has that ever happened?57:59 When have we ever enforced that?58:02 And just a word that there is also regulations about landscaped areas must be maintained that I don't think the town does much enforcement on and could certainly do more enforcement for some of our more rundown properties.58:16 Um, back to the original point for parking minimums, not something that we've discussed intensively.58:21 Um, it's something that we would need to, um, you know, run by business owners, developers, neighbors, um, to make sure that, um, we weren't missing anything.58:31 Um, certainly when it comes to homes and apartments too, the, the standards are really intensive about, um, that residential units must have Um, like one per bedroom basically.58:47 Uh, dwelling units having 2 or more bedrooms must have 2 parking spaces.58:51 Dwelling units having fewer than 2 bedrooms must have 1 parking space.58:54 Um, and for hotels and motels, 1 space per guest unit.58:59 You ever wonder why Seaport Inn has oceans of parking on either side that sit empty all day?59:04 Um, so, um, certainly one that I'd be happy to make the case for personally would be a priority for me.59:12 However, again, the plate is only so big.59:15 If we were doing use table, would we want to— I think use table and lot sizes and, and parking minimums are each a pretty big plate item.59:26 So I could see that being a future town meeting if we were taking on one of those first 2.59:34 I will say that I, I agree with you.59:37 However, If this was a thing where we realized we, we were able to take on more for town meeting, I feel like this one would be an easy one.59:45 Um, I don't think we'd get a lot of pushback on it.59:48 Um, we'd be giving people more freedom, not less freedom.59:53 Um, and I don't think it would be that heavy of a lift.59:58 Um, but is it a high priority?1:00:00 Probably not.1:00:01 And like, if we need to use all of our time for the more pressing issues we have then sure.1:00:06 But I think it would be one, a good one to earmark.1:00:08 Like, if we have time, this would be a good one to just throw in because I think it'd be popular and I don't think we'd have to reinvent the wheel to come up with a better solution on.1:00:19 Yeah, I kind of look at it, um, you know, this sounds like it's, uh, a little bit backwards, but I'm— I kind of look at it, where's the best return for effort put in?1:00:31 And it sounds like from what you're talking about, we have the data We're missing data for other things.1:00:39 So we have the data.1:00:41 It will be a popular initiative.1:00:46 And it, you know, if we are so out of date, and you're right, you see all this wasted space, say, what the heck, I use that big parking lot to cut through.1:00:57 And it would be very visible.1:00:58 So if we're looking to look, take action, Um, instead of sort of struggling through, well, what should we do?1:01:07 And do we have to wait for the state?1:01:09 This to me is a real, uh, kind of— okay, well, this one to me feels like I need the most data because I want to know what businesses actually think.1:01:20 I mean, I could be driving by and say the lot is empty, and they could be saying I love all my parking spots.1:01:27 Like the Seaport Inn, I'm sure on Friday nights love all their parking spaces.1:01:31 Yeah, but I think the difference is, right now we require them to have those parking spaces.1:01:36 It's not up to them.1:01:37 We say you must have a parking space for every guest unit in your hotel.1:01:43 And they're like, geez, I don't need that many.1:01:45 But okay, we'd be saying you don't need to have that many, you, you can get by with half of that.1:01:51 But if they needed more than that, they could do that.1:01:56 We're giving them that option.1:01:58 Not taking away something that they need.1:02:02 Right now, you can't have your bank unless you have a seat of parking, you can't have your hotel without a seat of parking.1:02:09 And I, I think that there's more of a benefit to when you also look at the environmental impact of having so much of our town paved.1:02:20 It really hurts when it comes to storms, flooding, wind speeds, heat.1:02:26 It turns the town into a heat sink.1:02:29 So I think it's just an all-around win.1:02:33 But again, high priority compared to the other stuff?1:02:35 Not really.1:02:36 The other stuff is also going to require more work.1:02:39 But I would love to have it on the back burner as one we could pull the trigger on if we have that time.1:02:46 I think that would be— sorry to jump in, Pat.1:02:50 I think that'd probably be an easy one to do a before and after.1:02:54 And I'd be happy to work with Jess and Don, just to give the board a look at what that might be, whether or not we move ahead with it.1:03:06 When you say look at, what do you mean by a Ted Roberts style?1:03:10 This is what we could change.1:03:12 Okay.1:03:13 Like find him a place in the existing.1:03:16 I think he did that, didn't he?1:03:18 It's been a bit since I looked at it, but I thought I saw parking slots.1:03:24 So, Mr.1:03:25 Chair, through you, just what Kevin said, and I believe that he's right on the point there.1:03:31 Not only is the asphalt, the paved part in town doesn't allow for— it doesn't allow for heat exchange, but it also hurts our stormwater and our harbor.1:03:45 Because every time there's an inch, the first inch that is rained on is the most pollutants.1:03:52 And there's 135 outfalls in our 12.9 coastline that we own.1:03:58 And that goes directly into the water.1:04:00 It's an environmental issue, number one.1:04:02 Secondly, I think just what Jen said is a huge proponent to this, is that this affects businesses in the way they do business.1:04:12 I don't mean it affects them by saying that will give them, um, less restrictive.1:04:18 If you go more restrictive, it's gonna, it's gonna hurt them more.1:04:21 So we, we had a VFW that came in front of us.1:04:27 It was a 12-apartment there.1:04:28 People were complaining because there's no parking or anything.1:04:31 If you go down there right now, I'll bet you $1,000 there's not a car parked on that street right now.1:04:36 And it's been that way because I took pictures for a Just to prove it wrong.1:04:40 So, and, and another thing, the Seaport Inn, they give them so many parking spaces there, but they don't take into account that that's seasonal parking.1:04:49 When you have a marina there, you have more parking, you have more parties, it gets, it gets used.1:04:55 But in the wintertime, it's vacant over there.1:04:57 So I, I— and they were actually looking at the property across the street that became a restaurant to purchase that just for overflow parking.1:05:06 Because they were, they were worried that if they didn't meet that parking mandate that the planning board or whoever did that in 1970 is going to put them in violation.1:05:17 So I think less restrictive, and things seem to work out the best way they can as far as parking.1:05:26 It's not Boston where you're going to put a chair out there to keep your parking space in town.1:05:32 And I don't think that's happening anytime soon.1:05:34 So let's be less restrictive on businesses and also residents that happen to have cars.1:05:40 So we allow that parking, maybe take a look, Miles could take a look at the data.1:05:45 And then maybe say, okay, we got just use a number, we got 500, let's bring it down to 250 or whatever, you know, 50% reduction.1:05:52 I have a question.1:05:54 Who pays?1:05:55 I'm just thinking of the shopping on Route 6. Who pays to maintain all that asphalt?1:06:03 Is it assessed to each business owner?1:06:06 They own that?1:06:08 Not on the road?1:06:09 No, no, no, I was just thinking the parking lot.1:06:13 And there's that— I don't know, I guess, you know, when they come out of getting their coffee, right, a lot of people just drive down that thing at the end of where the parking lot is marked.1:06:28 Do each of the property owners pay for that maintenance of that?1:06:34 Or is everything bought up again?1:06:36 I think, I think those— I might be incorrect, but I believe those buildings or those areas are leased.1:06:42 So that's owned by one, I believe one or two corporations.1:06:46 Oh, I see.1:06:47 Yeah, the plaza owners.1:06:48 Yeah.1:06:49 Okay.1:06:49 So they're responsible for everything.1:06:51 Okay.1:06:52 What about all the lighting and all that?1:06:58 And I think, to Pat's point about Seaport needing more parking, it certainly seems like a great solution when, like, SoCo has been entering agreements with neighboring businesses to use their parking lots, you know, when they might be dark, that they can use those parking lots.1:07:15 I think that's a much better solution than the government mandating you business owner must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on buying land for more parking.1:07:23 Yeah.1:07:24 And could we, could we reach out to EDC to see if they have any of this research?1:07:28 I mean, they're the ones that kind of deal with all the businesses in town.1:07:33 And you send them a note.1:07:36 Thank you.1:07:37 Kathy'd be happy to take on more projects.1:07:40 I didn't even think about it.1:07:42 I know nothing about this next one either.1:07:44 Updating fee schedule, 306 references and regulations.1:07:49 So we have a fee schedule somewhere and someone, I think, did this come from you?1:07:54 It just came from Jess?1:07:55 No, it came from Jessica.1:07:57 And they're pretty outdated.1:08:00 Yeah, you know, I asked her for clarification about that too, because in our bylaws, this is referenced.1:08:06 But then I think she said town meeting voted it out.1:08:09 So I don't know.1:08:11 What that means.1:08:13 Okay.1:08:13 Yeah, sorry.1:08:15 So that's pretty low on my list right now.1:08:19 I don't know what it means either, but it doesn't sound difficult.1:08:25 Marine took care of about 10 minutes of the meeting.1:08:31 College communities.1:08:32 Any questions on college communities?1:08:34 Did everyone get the read-up on that?1:08:36 What's going on in that place?1:08:40 Any questions on that or feelings on that?1:08:43 I mean, are we looking at this to possibly emulate that style of building?1:08:48 Is that what you're talking about?1:08:49 That's what I'm assuming too.1:08:51 But, you know, I would— we don't have to copy them.1:08:53 But right, if it's an example that we can use in town, maybe that's something we should look at.1:08:58 And I'm almost saying, let Matta place it a little bit more.1:09:03 So this is a little low on my list too.1:09:05 But I think, I think it's a great concept.1:09:07 Let them make the mistakes.1:09:09 Copy them.1:09:10 I wasn't gonna say that.1:09:11 And this was— go ahead.1:09:12 I'm sorry.1:09:13 The one thing I kind of understand what you're all saying.1:09:16 However, just keeping in mind that one of the big issues here, and it's a hot button for a lot of people, that there is— kids can't even afford to buy a house.1:09:28 So the tiny houses concept, even though it doesn't say that, but I sort of get a little bit of that.1:09:34 And that's exactly what they are.1:09:36 Yeah.1:09:36 Yeah.1:09:37 And I think, um, I just think it's so compelling, particularly in light of the fact that this is a big problem here.1:09:48 Yeah, I got excited about it just for the same reason.1:09:51 I mean, the small, the 5,000-square-lot thing, you know, I'll reserve my judgment, but I think we could imagine what might go up But this is really what a starter home— I think people think of, you know, for a starter home.1:10:07 And in the back of my mind, um, I, I happen to know of a man who's selling some land, and I'm like, oh, that would be so interesting if that was a small lot, like a cottage.1:10:19 Um, like, putting the $5,000— putting the ballot question aside, if we had our zoning today and this was some sort of like an overlay or a potential permit for this area, how many more houses they could get in and what a cute little area it could be.1:10:34 So that's why I drew this on here.1:10:38 Yeah, I like this too.1:10:40 Just this did come up in a meeting that I participated in this weekend.1:10:44 And the concern, concern there too is this concern on financing.1:10:50 So this doesn't fit in the cookie cutter 30-year, 15-year, 20-year mortgage.1:10:58 So, um, what I've heard is that a couple of these communities might have to get started.1:11:04 A couple people may have to buy some of those units just so that anyone else could get a mortgage on it, um, just because when they get mortgages they need comps, um, so then this is so new that I, I've been led to believe that there's no mechanism for, for purchase right now.1:11:29 So I would say Dawn's point, 5,000 square feet is a starter home.1:11:34 It's a finisher home for me too.1:11:36 So I don't know anybody in this room— do you have a lot that's bigger than 5,000 right now that you've bought that's been there for 30 or 40 years.1:11:47 Maybe you do have a larger lot, but most of us that live in the center of town, that's what we live on.1:11:53 And it's not gonna— it's not going to deteriorate the neighborhood.1:11:56 It's going to fill in some gaps.1:11:58 That's going to end up helping the town in the long run, but it's also going to help out the housing crisis that's in Massachusetts.1:12:05 I also think it can do something to really change some of the perception of Fair Haven.1:12:13 And somewhere, I can't remember where it was, was the thought that a cottage community, nicely done with some landscaping, blah, blah, blah, could actually do well as fill-in on Route 6, break up some of the monotony of the big boxes.1:12:28 Honestly, I think it would.1:12:29 I think so too.1:12:30 You see it in Providence.1:12:32 You absolutely see it, what they've done in some of their areas.1:12:36 I'm a fan.1:12:38 Yeah, I am too.1:12:41 But is it— I guess the question comes down to, is it realistic to be addressing this in time for— yeah, where does this fall on the list?1:12:50 Yeah, I think I would say for me, nice idea.1:12:55 We would need to spend some time figuring out how to make it right for Fairhaven and talk to developers about whether it pencils out.1:13:03 I would probably say it's Um, future projects for me.1:13:09 Again, whenever the 48 changes come in and they downsize those lots and we're adopting that, that's— you don't even have to ask a developer.1:13:19 Those lots that are owned by people that they couldn't sell, they were non-conforming anymore, definitely going to go on, on the, on the block.1:13:25 You're not going to be asking $900,000 for them either, so they possibly could sell quicker than something that's established, that's 2,300 square feet.1:13:38 Okay.1:13:39 Now, how do we want to tackle the— do I want to— do you want me to bring up each, each item and we each say a number?1:13:51 How do we want to do this?1:13:55 If I, if I may make a suggestion.1:13:59 Why don't we isolate out the ones that we think are too up in the air due to what's happening in the state right now so that they're not cluttering it up, and we'll know what we have left.1:14:12 Now, a lot of the ones that fall into that former category are high priority or would be high priority, but we don't know what we don't know about them yet.1:14:21 They could go from a high priority thing for us to suddenly a non-issue.1:14:24 Issue once the state comes back.1:14:27 But then that would leave us with the remainder that we know the state's not talking about it.1:14:31 It's our purview.1:14:32 Where do we rank those?1:14:34 Then the other ones, we wait till the dust settles.1:14:39 And we put those into our already preexisting list.1:14:43 That's— that would be my suggestion.1:14:47 So data center, The solar stuff.1:14:55 Cottage communities.1:14:58 Take those.1:14:59 I don't know.1:15:03 Lot sizes.1:15:06 I mean, we're waiting for the vote, but it's 3 weeks.1:15:11 Right.1:15:12 And I think, right, I don't know, I could be corrected.1:15:15 But when I talked to the building commissioner, it's already in Boston right now.1:15:19 They have 5— that's the mandatory.1:15:22 What they're doing is trying to do what they did with the ADUs, make it a buy-right thing.1:15:26 So other communities in the Commonwealth have to follow suit.1:15:30 So I would say even if we didn't get that from the state and you make a choice as it comes down the line, but some of these things probably should be addressed even if the state doesn't go with them.1:15:41 And I'm not saying they're a hard no and then we change that, but I think we should start prepping ourselves for use changes, lot size, 48 changes, and parking.1:15:54 I think 4 of those things probably should be grouped together.1:15:59 And then once we know what happens in 3 weeks, that should become the number one priority after that.1:16:05 So I'll make a— I'll make a recommendation for 48 being number one right now.1:16:14 Yeah, as it's not really our choice.1:16:16 Okay.1:16:16 Yeah, I think I would agree with that.1:16:19 So 40A is number one.1:16:22 Any other recommendations?1:16:24 Could we, could we possibly group some of these here too?1:16:28 I mean, 40A is going to affect lot size changes.1:16:32 Use, use table changes are going to be incorporated in that as well too.1:16:38 And also parking.1:16:40 So possibly put those together as, as a priority that's going to happen once we see what happens with Boston.1:16:48 Um, I'd like to, I'd like to do it differently.1:16:51 I'd like to have a number beside them.1:16:52 Just, it could be all 3 in a row.1:16:54 Okay.1:16:55 But I would like to give a number, 1, 2, 3, just to make it as clear as possible.1:17:00 Okay.1:17:00 Could we start with 40A as number 1?1:17:02 Yeah, I'd say 40A is number 1 and, and If it's okay, we can do protected ADA, ADU changes for number 2.1:17:09 Mr.1:17:10 Chair, I'm going to step out for a second.1:17:13 Please continue.1:17:14 Absolutely.1:17:16 Um, now this is where I think we get into, uh, going to get into discussion.1:17:23 So for number, for number 3, um, yes, uh, Jen, I think, uh, we have the best coming up.1:17:34 I don't even know how to— and we're talking about the best in, in a couple minutes, so, um, I don't know where to put that.1:17:43 Do we want that next in the— or am I— I'm thinking use changes and lots.1:17:49 I was thinking use— both of those need to be like consecutive, and then possibly packing out a few stable changes next.1:17:57 Yeah, yeah.1:17:57 Okay, 3.1:17:58 And then lot size changes possibly, and also parking after that.1:18:04 So we're gonna break number— so we're gonna break that one out and just say lot size changes?1:18:09 Yes.1:18:09 Okay, is that okay with everybody?1:18:11 Not overlay versus— nope, just lot size changes.1:18:18 Yeah, that's okay.1:18:20 Uh, so now we're down to number 5.1:18:23 Was parking.1:18:24 Parking.1:18:24 Parking.1:18:25 Yeah.1:18:26 Good with me.1:18:29 Number 6.1:18:30 Yes.1:18:32 Yes.1:18:35 Sure.1:18:35 I didn't see myself going that low on the list.1:18:37 I'm a little sad.1:18:39 Yeah.1:18:39 Yes.1:18:40 Number 7.1:18:42 Well, one thing not on here is balcony solar.1:18:50 And this is really up in the air, but it's probably pretty likely it'll go through.1:18:55 So we need to also put some thinking on about that.1:19:00 Because correct me if I'm wrong, does BES include individual battery?1:19:07 Yes, less than 25— 250 kilowatts.1:19:11 Okay, so I don't know where balcony would fall in that.1:19:14 Balcony doesn't have a battery.1:19:16 Oh, that's right.1:19:16 It just plugs in.1:19:18 I do have questions on the balcony solar and the plug-in because when you do solar, the fire department has an automatic shutoff, like it has its own box, this shut-off, but like, but this, this box senses electricity like that, like what that box would do.1:19:40 Well, No, you're going into manual shut-off.1:19:42 I'm going into like the fire department has a manual valve to shut off.1:19:45 Manual shut-off.1:19:46 That's a great question.1:19:51 And then my other question is, it shuts off automatically though if you lose power.1:19:55 Yeah, no, that I know.1:19:57 But then who's— sorry, so who would the onus be on?1:20:01 Are we going to talk about this after?1:20:02 Yeah, I think we should because— yeah, okay, sorry.1:20:08 But all I'm saying is, is that the whole plugin, this is another one of those win-win, it's going to be, we're going to look ridiculous.1:20:16 We don't, we're not ready for this.1:20:18 Yeah, I would, I would wait until, I guess I would wait until it gets approved.1:20:24 And then hopefully see what the state says, gives us for guidance.1:20:30 Could you couple that with canopy solar, at least to put it on?1:20:34 Yeah, absolutely.1:20:35 Yeah.1:20:35 Well, except that it's it's right in the process of the final— they're arguing about everything else other than plug-in solar.1:20:45 There's one thing, and that relates to the battery question, because there is, as far as I understand, I'm not an expert on this, that there is a capability with your plug-in solar, you're feeding the electrical system, but there is another way to also have a battery associated with your plug-in.1:21:05 That's, that's— I think that's not, that's not the plug-in solar that's in front of the State House now.1:21:12 The plug-in solar that's in front of State House is for 4 400-watt panels with a device that plugs into a certain circuit.1:21:23 Yeah, no, I think it was, it was mentioned.1:21:26 But I don't want to do that.1:21:29 But I don't think that's what's Well, that's what it was confusing to me about the whole discussion around battery storage, because they did somewhere talk about, um, individual, uh, home-specific battery storage fed by your— the output from your solar panels, your, your plug-in solar panels.1:21:52 I may be totally off on that, but that's what I was hoping I— you could But anyway, aren't those the battery backups?1:21:58 Yeah, that's— and they, um, they charge the batteries.1:22:03 You can— so it wouldn't— it would be coming from— whether it's coming from your house or your solar, it doesn't matter.1:22:09 You're getting 2 feeds.1:22:10 What charges that battery?1:22:12 Who knows?1:22:13 It all depends on when you're charging that up.1:22:15 And I think that's— we're in a totally different discussion now, but I think we should— yeah, let's put that on with Canopy Solar and discuss it then.1:22:23 But can we give it some attention that it is, it is being discussed at the state level?1:22:31 It is highly likely it's going to go in.1:22:33 There are a lot of few details.1:22:35 Can I ask you a favor then too?1:22:36 Because I think you're right, it is going to go.1:22:38 So there's certain states that have already approved it.1:22:41 Can you look and see what they've done?1:22:43 I thought it was only 6 states.1:22:45 So I have a lot of questions.1:22:46 Like 6 states have done it, 11 are in process.1:22:49 Right.1:22:50 So let's see what the 6 states came up with for local guidance.1:22:54 If we could find that out, that would be fantastic.1:22:57 Yeah.1:23:01 So is it number 7?1:23:02 Did I get lost?1:23:04 Are we doing the canopy solar number 7 with the best— with the balconies?1:23:12 Okay.1:23:14 Does that mean you do not want to have a placeholder for plug-in?1:23:18 I'll, I'll get— no, we just, we just did.1:23:20 Yeah, number 7 is— so number 7 is going to be canopy/balcony.1:23:25 Oh, oh, oh, okay.1:23:29 Uh, number 8, same.1:23:37 Uh, I'm gonna say cottage communities.1:23:41 Anybody have any different feelings on that?1:23:45 Which 3 do we have left at this point?1:23:47 Cottage communities, updating the fee schedule, and data center.1:23:51 And data center.1:23:52 Yeah, I agree with you.1:23:53 Okay, well, not to be too, uh, obstreperous here, but we— do we have an understanding of what the imp— if, if we are so out of date with our, uh, bylaws, it seems to me our fees must be really out of date.1:24:08 And this is a revenue producer for the town.1:24:11 Yep.1:24:13 So, um, I don't want to just lose that in the, in the, in the melee here.1:24:18 No, I, I, I agree.1:24:20 And I think, you know, if we find that that is like extremely low-hanging fruit, if that's something that we can address in one meeting and then put the town meeting, I, I'd say I would, you know, like to see us raise that up.1:24:33 But for right now, with the information that I've been given, which is not much.1:24:38 I'm gonna put it off.1:24:41 Okay, so yeah, I guess I missed that.1:24:43 At this point, we're putting no effort into that.1:24:46 I'm finding that's what I— that's how I feel.1:24:51 I feel like it.1:24:53 I feel like there have been changes to the fees in town pretty recently.1:25:00 So this is what it says in E-code.1:25:02 Chapter 306, um, reserved.1:25:05 Former Chapter 306 fees adopted May 23rd, 2009 was repealed May 4th, 2024 at town meeting by Article 20.1:25:16 I haven't looked up Article 20.1:25:19 Was it 2024 you said?1:25:20 Yeah, so that's why I did look it up, but this is all I know.1:25:26 So I had, you know, I wanted Jessica to elaborate, but she's not here.1:25:32 Okay.1:25:34 I just would imagine with the scrutiny that our budget was given that the fees would have been gone through with a fine-tooth comb.1:25:41 And I feel like changes have been made in the past couple of years, but that I don't— I can't— I don't know for sure.1:25:48 And honestly, again, if that's an easy lift and it's something that, you know, sure we're all fine with moving that up the list.1:25:59 Isn't that simply looking at line items on our P&L statements for the municipality, what the fees are?1:26:07 Isn't that easy?1:26:08 Can we do that?1:26:09 Honestly, I would think it would be easy, but I'm not gonna put my foot in my mouth.1:26:15 But I think because if Kevin is saying he feels like there's been an uptick But all I care about is, well, is that true?1:26:23 Is, is if we are, you know, if we are up to date on our fees, are we seeing that in our line, our income?1:26:36 Also, Article 20 was split into 9 distinct motions covering various updates to zoning and planning regulations.1:26:47 May 4th, 2024.1:26:50 Yeah, we'll try.1:26:53 Yeah, I don't know.1:26:55 Sorry.1:26:56 Okay.1:27:00 Um, data center, I think, is 10.1:27:02 Thank you.1:27:03 You're welcome.1:27:05 And then you did mention opening, uh, changing or, uh, breaking that down.1:27:11 Did you want to do an 11 and do, um, change your changes to prioritize zone and overlay.1:27:18 Did you want to make that a separate item, or are you happy with what we— what do you mean, the priority zone and overlay versus— no, I think we should take that out altogether.1:27:27 Just take it out.1:27:28 Well, good, that's fine with me, because that overlay, as we discussed, is huge.1:27:33 It's not just like— okay, so I have our 10.1:27:37 Um, hopefully they're right.1:27:40 Uh, let's see.1:27:45 We are— um, yeah, so I think we're good.1:27:56 We got our list.1:27:58 Um, the public hearing, do we need to open that public hearing and close that, or do we just recommended we need to open a public hearing.1:28:08 Continue it.1:28:09 Okay, thank you very much.1:28:11 I'm going to open up public hearing DS-26-01-4 Earl Street.1:28:17 The applicant Coastal Village Partners LLC proposes a continuance to November 10, 2026, due to stormwater peer review in progress by the firm Hosley and Whitten.1:28:35 Do I have a motion?1:28:37 Before we make that motion, discussion on this.1:28:41 What was the outcome of the board that we voted when they were at the last meeting?1:28:46 Not a peer review for stormwater, but a peer review on the whole property there.1:28:52 I thought that's what it was.1:28:53 And now we're kind of narrowing it down.1:28:55 They're doing a narrowing down to stormwater.1:28:58 I thought it was topographical.1:29:00 We want to see where the wetlands were and everything else, the complete picture.1:29:04 I believe that's what the motion was.1:29:06 Leave that up to you, Don.1:29:07 I don't remember.1:29:08 So that was— so at that same time, BPW wanted to do their own peer review that would have not been an ask of the applicant.1:29:23 That has— they have not done that.1:29:25 But that was initially what they were going to do, right?1:29:29 Changing over there, like practically daily.1:29:32 So I don't want to impede on whatever the BPW is doing.1:29:37 We as a planning board voted and asked for a peer review on the complete area so we could see where the topographical— where the— because we're hearing, oh, during storms, it seems to go down to this street over here.1:29:51 Well, we don't know that unless We have the data in front of us proving that that theory is there.1:29:56 And we are not engineers, so we ask that an engineer give us the complete history of wetlands, everything that has to do with that, so it comes before us in a peer review so we can absorb it.1:30:08 It sounds like that's what they're doing.1:30:10 It's a firm, Horsley and Whitten.1:30:13 Um, they are getting a peer— but what— yeah, that's isolated.1:30:19 We ask for it because there's 3 properties on there that seems to have a battle going all the time with legal, and not— we don't have an engineer saying this is what needs to be done, or this is what can be done, or have their guidance from a professional stamped engineer on the complete property.1:30:38 We've asked them for that peer review.1:30:40 Now, whether they misinterpreted and went to BPW and they're doing a separate one, or they're additionally doing that one, is okay.1:30:47 But before they come back to the planning board, somebody needs to relay that we asked for them to get a complete peer review of the whole property.1:30:54 Okay, can we— can we go back and look and review the meeting?1:31:00 Yeah, I don't recall that.1:31:01 Exactly.1:31:01 We asked for— I'm fairly certain— I, I will go back and check, but I believe that our vote was for a peer review for stormwater.1:31:10 That's what we were asking for.1:31:12 Okay.1:31:12 However, then we had this conversation because earlier BPW had mentioned they were going to— so we talked about it, but I believe that the motion and vote was just peer review for stormwater, but I will confirm.1:31:27 Awesome.1:31:27 Thank you very much.1:31:29 So we can't open— we can't open that up for discussion right now because unless you're opening the— no, and we were just kind of— I don't think we were opening a discussion.1:31:38 We're just opening it to continue it.1:31:41 Right, but now you also added that they're waiting for a peer review for stormwater, and, and that's what's written in, in the motion.1:31:48 Yeah, so just for the record, when it comes back in front of us, I'm going to be asking for a complete peer review over that because there's a lot of discrepancies between the abutters and this property owner.1:32:01 I think it needs to be legally found out exactly what they're talking about so we don't have this one told us this and conservation told us Send a peer review, we get to review what we do and decide from there.1:32:13 Okay.1:32:17 On that motion, anybody?1:32:20 Yeah.1:32:22 I guess we need a second.1:32:23 I'll second that.1:32:26 All in favor for the continuance?1:32:30 Miles, Miles Grant, aye.1:32:32 Sean Powers, aye.1:32:33 Kevin Brandt, aye.1:32:34 Mona Phillips, aye.1:32:35 Jennifer Cardoza, aye.1:32:36 Patrick Power, aye.1:32:39 All right, receipt of plans, none.1:32:43 New other business.1:32:46 Review the balcony solar support letter from Mona.1:32:50 That, that you'll get that in our email yesterday.1:32:55 Any questions on that or feelings on that letter?1:33:03 I just want to say good to me and thank you for drafting.1:33:05 Great.1:33:07 Agreed.1:33:07 Thank you.1:33:10 Miles, you said you made a suggestion before about having the— that was a question I actually had for the board.1:33:18 When I wrote the letter, I wrote it to the Speaker and the President, President of the Senate, Speaker of the House.1:33:26 At that point, I guess that was almost simultaneously Everything was reviewed by— from the House, from the Senate, and the bills were sort of out of sync in terms of what they were aiming for.1:33:43 Some pretty heavy-duty philosophical differences.1:33:46 However, plugging in solar was not one of them.1:33:50 So at this point, it's not clear because I have no idea where they are.1:33:54 It's very shrouded here.1:33:58 At this point, it to me, it seems like very clear it's going to go through.1:34:03 Um, so, um, uh, that, that's just my opinion.1:34:08 Should we also copy this letter on to the 3 members of bicameral committee that's reviewing both now recasted bills from the House and the Senate, or should we just leave it addressed to the Senate President and Speaker?1:34:27 To address your first point, as somebody that works with the legislature or, you know, in conjunction with the legislature a lot, I would not get caught up on what the legislature is doing moment to moment and just focus on expressing our support for it generally.1:34:42 Let them figure out how they're going to make that sausage.1:34:46 But I would encourage you to CC this letter to, if there's a conference committee, to the conference committee members.1:34:53 As well as to our representative and state senator.1:34:56 Yes.1:34:59 And House rep. Yeah, that would be great.1:35:01 Yeah, just CC them.1:35:03 Let them know we sent this letter.1:35:05 Yeah, I appreciate the heads up.1:35:08 And also, you think it's appropriate for the bicameral committee members?1:35:14 We're going to speak up for balcony solar, I think, you know, CCing as many folks as we can It was great.1:35:20 Okay, thank you.1:35:25 Any other, any other comments or edits or anything on the letter?1:35:31 No, thank you for doing it.1:35:36 Yeah.1:35:37 Board policy and procedure.1:35:39 This, I believe I was told that we didn't get anything back.1:35:43 But we'll carry that to next meeting.1:35:48 Um, excuse me, Mr.1:35:48 Chair, what are we waiting for?1:35:50 Uh, Keith was going to respond to your request, and that request was sent to him right after that meeting?1:35:57 Yeah, I believe so.1:35:59 I, I don't— and to the best of my knowledge, it wasn't the very next day because I had to summarize all the notes, but he apologized that he wasn't going to have anything ready for this meeting.1:36:12 But I, I got it to him as timely as possible.1:36:14 But he had, uh, I don't, I don't think that the timing was the issue.1:36:18 So we'll keep that on track.1:36:20 Oh no, I didn't, I didn't even think that was the issue.1:36:22 I'm questioning why it takes more than 2 weeks to look at a motion to find out if he thinks that that's— I don't even know why we're going forward with that.1:36:32 But, um, I'm— we're, we're— I've been doing this now for like 3 months to try to get on policies and procedures, and it just keeps on getting kicked down the road.1:36:41 I don't understand why.1:36:43 I mean, I hear always that there's bickering at playing board and we don't play good in the sandbox and everything.1:36:50 Well, unless we're going to move on some of these things that we're asking him to do, which is important to this board, and not having this within a 2-week time frame is to me kind of unacceptable, but we'll just have to live with it.1:37:04 Uh, now, best by law.1:37:06 Okay, you're up.1:37:08 Okay, um, so because we had the list, I just kind of made this for everyone to kind of think about, do some homework.1:37:17 If you want to pass it around, um, thank you.1:37:22 Just information that, again, um, I know that it might not be important just because the state kind of has their their own mandates.1:37:29 But as long as we could kind of put our own finger and pulse on it and get kind of information from other people— like, I'd love to hear what the fire chief has to say about it.1:37:38 I think that's really important.1:37:39 It's important to get his input on it.1:37:42 Um, just some stuff if everyone wants to look and come to the next meeting and give some suggestions, or if you have questions.1:37:50 It's just basic questions, kind of look at, you know, the state gave us a template and we kind of have to input our own information.1:37:56 Information, right?1:37:57 Like, we're kind of filling in the blanks of what we want it to kind of conform to for Haven.1:38:09 Yeah, just to Kevin's point, um, really about the placement, it's, uh, so it is, it looks like, you know, the smaller units are by right.1:38:18 Yeah.1:38:18 Um, I, I would be interested in to see what what our ordinary permit means or what guidelines there are around the ordinary permit.1:38:30 That's lawfully vague.1:38:31 Yeah.1:38:32 So 3 words right there.1:38:33 Yeah.1:38:34 So I will, uh, I'll take that one.1:38:38 I'll ask the building, you know, see what we have for permits.1:38:44 I mean, I don't mind doing any of that, or— Oh, you don't mind?1:38:47 Yeah, no, I don't know if— I don't know if it's like something I can actually do.1:38:50 Like, I really don't mind.1:38:52 Oh, okay.1:38:53 All right.1:38:53 All right.1:38:55 So can I ask like the building inspector, the fire chief?1:38:58 Yeah, ask them what's been pulled in.1:39:00 You know, if we can just see what it's like.1:39:03 Okay.1:39:03 All right.1:39:04 It's funny because allowed by right in all districts with ordinary permits, but they don't really say what that means.1:39:13 Because this is sort of a new thing.1:39:16 There aren't any permits in place.1:39:18 So what constitutes an ordinary permit versus an extraordinary permit?1:39:23 And, and then all of the other ones, it gives the town a lot of leeway.1:39:27 It seems like board input is still needed.1:39:30 Well, which board?1:39:31 Depends on the use and district.1:39:33 Well, how?1:39:35 That— I, I think that's all up to us, which I think is a good thing.1:39:38 Um, site plan review or a special permit— I'm going all the way down.1:39:42 Site plan review or a special permit depending on the proposed use table.1:39:45 That's wide open.1:39:47 Like, these are all pretty wide open to interpretation the way I see it.1:39:51 State review with town input and emergency planning.1:39:55 Well, town input, does that mean you're making suggestions that they don't have to live by?1:39:59 Or does that mean that the town has to rubber stamp everything?1:40:05 So it just seems, it seems, it seems deliberately vague.1:40:09 Um, so if you could, if you could find out what the ordinary permits part at least means.1:40:14 And then it sounds like they're leaving it somewhat up to us to draft our own idea and give it back to them and see what they think of it, which I think is good, you know.1:40:27 Jennifer, did you just pass out the state, um, template?1:40:31 No.1:40:32 So this is just kind of like the things we need to fill in for the state template and what everyone should be thinking about.1:40:37 Okay, because there are more things I didn't give you all the state template, sorry, but these are things that we should be thinking about that we can input.1:40:46 So I will check with all the people, um, and see what they think.1:40:54 And were you going to use this for a template, possibly for a bylaw?1:41:01 I think, I think that's what was recommended by the state.1:41:04 So the state is going to give us a template and we're going to take that template.1:41:07 Yeah, so we already have a template.1:41:09 These are kind of just the blanks that we need to fill into the template to kind of make it Fairhaven.1:41:14 So it's not the same.1:41:15 And what Kevin said too earlier about do we need to fill in the, the correct words, um, where it says board, do we need to spell out which board?1:41:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah.1:41:26 All right.1:41:27 But that, you know, that's all— I think that's all good stuff.1:41:31 Like, here's a tool to come up with how you want to do it.1:41:34 Yeah.1:41:34 And then just let us know what you're doing.1:41:36 That's Jennifer's tool.1:41:38 Yep.1:41:38 Yep.1:41:38 Yeah, that's great.1:41:40 Thanks.1:41:42 I know what you're trying to say.1:41:44 I know what you're trying to say, but it's okay.1:41:46 I mean, it's just kind of funny because the state— it would be nice if the state said that.1:41:50 Hey, I actually made this template.1:41:54 I guess I should have that gave it so we could put on the folder to put for everyone to see, um, just to kind of break it down because it was so convoluted to try to get it out to you guys and to try to really think about like what we want for Freehaven.1:42:05 And I know, you know, the state kind of can come down on us and say what they want, but at least if we can kind of put our finger on it and say like, okay, like the state wants this, but we're gonna like, you know, we're gonna go to that line and we kind of want to protect our neighbors, we want to protect people.1:42:22 That's just my 2 cents.1:42:38 Another question I would, if you don't mind, is ask the fire department if they've had their training.1:42:44 Good idea.1:42:45 Yeah.1:42:49 And I would imagine all the departments that they're talking about with town input is talking about the 100 MWh or more, the largest capacity.1:43:02 But they still have to address if it's in residence, the smaller ones, even though it's not as maybe possible explosive damage or whatever they're talking about, fire damage, then they would have to probably go through Tier 1, 2, 3 as well just to give their kind of recommendations.1:43:26 I don't know if Don, if you can answer this too, but we have where I live, it's Nasketucket River Basin.1:43:38 Do we have like— I think we have, we have wells up there.1:43:47 So do— are there other areas in town that where we get our drinking water from that you wouldn't want to see something like this?1:44:01 Do we have any other areas that are— that would be zoned for to exclude something like this.1:44:11 I don't know.1:44:11 The town's wells, uh, come from other towns as well too.1:44:16 They're not in Fairhaven.1:44:18 I think it's— isn't there still one in Fairhaven?1:44:19 There might be one, but I think he was saying maybe that one ran dry or something and they're looking to explore to get another one.1:44:26 Okay.1:44:26 Um, especially when they're talking about the people coming into town they're going to need to derive more water supply.1:44:32 So that's been a topic on BPW.1:44:35 I'm not so sure that's in a district where this type of, you know, battery storage would be capable to go in there anyway.1:44:45 I'm thinking that something that size or larger has to be in industrial, and that's not an industrial area.1:44:51 That's in a rural area.1:45:02 Any other questions on that, or do we want to— I just want to say this week there's an article about how battery storage fires have dropped dramatically in recent years as the technology has improved.1:45:18 And, you know, the more you install these things think the better they get, the more you learn.1:45:23 So I'm excited to, you know, again, as we were talking earlier about the use table, putting out a marker that we're thinking about this stuff.1:45:29 And, um, yeah, you know, obviously it's something to stabilize our grid, to make it more affordable.1:45:34 And when, um, you know, usage spikes, if you've got a battery to back it up, you know, shave those peaks off, um, the more we can do to do our part, the better.1:45:43 Yeah, it's, it's hard to— it's hard.1:45:46 There's a, there's a little bit of balancing, but it's hard to negate fact that this is much more beneficial to our environment and our ecology than the alternative, even if you consider what could happen in a storm or an emergency with your battery storage.1:46:03 Those are one-off things that could happen versus the stuff that happens absolutely all the time when you're using the fossil fuels we've already used to the extent that we use it, that has to come with the territory when you're burning coal, when you're doing all these other things, burning, you know, oil.1:46:23 This would— this— any sort of impact, negative impact that you're going to have is an outlier.1:46:27 It doesn't come with the territory, so to speak.1:46:31 So while we can, like, try to make it as safe as we possibly can for coastal areas, I still think that it's a very obvious environmental win to head in this direction.1:46:44 And this— and the state is driving towards 2030 to becoming more free of that fossil fuel.1:46:51 There's a huge drive for this.1:46:53 You look at solar panels, they take up huge swaths of area in order to effectively do that.1:46:59 So they all have their little downfalls.1:47:01 Cell phone towers in areas or that type of thing.1:47:07 I don't want to say windmills, wind turbines.1:47:11 There's huge implications if those things fail, fall, or anything like that.1:47:16 At least with battery storage, I think it's more compact and more able to be contained in a certain area or in certain areas in your house, which is— I think that's the reason why they're kind of getting a little away from solar and going towards battery now.1:47:35 And just, just so you know, if you do build a large-scale solar right now, you have to partner with battery.1:47:42 So they come together now.1:47:43 Right, exactly.1:47:45 Right.1:47:46 And certainly the concept being that solar panels are collecting their energy during the middle of the day.1:47:51 Electricity use spikes when everybody gets home and turns on air conditioners.1:47:55 So you've got battery that has hopefully stored the solar power during the day.1:47:58 Same at night for offshore wind.1:48:00 Offshore wind is cranking all night.1:48:02 You charge the batteries, everybody wakes up, they turn on their coffee makers, they turn on the air conditioning, turn on the heat, and can power it.1:48:11 I think it's also key to the whole variable pricing effort that they're talking about.1:48:17 It's major, you know, grid management techniques.1:48:24 So yeah, I think batteries and whatever is going to happen.1:48:28 Yeah, and I'm sorry, so not to go get too far into this, but I, I was looking at, um, new appliance technology, and some of the new, um, electric induction stoves have built-in batteries, and they're smart enough to know when the rates are at their lowest.1:48:48 And when the rates are at their lowest, they fill up their batteries and put them aside, and when the rates spike, they switch to battery power.1:48:56 So that you are always only using the lowest rate electricity when you cook, which is wild and very, very cool.1:49:03 And I think the United States is behind on a lot of this stuff in terms of incentivizing.1:49:08 I was visiting a friend in Canada last year and they were getting constant messages on their, their power app saying, can we turn down the heat in your house by 5 degrees and pay you $10?1:49:22 And I'm like, I want to be getting these.1:49:25 They actually— oh, it's a little side topic, but that, that's available now with some thermostats.1:49:31 They can turn down.1:49:33 Yeah, yeah, my house is pretty cool like that.1:49:36 Yeah, I don't have anything else on the battery storage.1:49:44 No, again, thank you for getting this ball rolling.1:49:45 Yeah.1:49:47 Thank you, Jen, for taking the initiative to get that.1:49:49 Yeah, thank you.1:49:51 And we expected possibly to have— I know it's a timeline of 2 weeks, maybe get that on the next agenda.1:49:58 So we stay in touch with this.1:50:01 If you have enough information, maybe get a hold of Shawna Jess and apply that because I'd like to see whatever accomplished.1:50:23 Oh, Dawn, it's your turn.1:50:28 Um, a good update is that Fairhaven was awarded a Resilient Coast Technical Assistance Program grant in partnership with Coastal Zone Management.1:50:42 Um, I have a scoping meeting on Thursday with, uh, CZM, AECOM, and Woods Hole Group, who will be our partners.1:50:52 This is a great grant because it's technical assistance.1:50:56 So, um, the, the amount of administration on the planner side is pretty low because they'll be working with, um, Woods Hole and AECOM more directly.1:51:09 So Um, yeah, I'll have more to report after this Thursday.1:51:13 Fantastic.1:51:14 Now, how do we— how do we get that grant?1:51:17 Um, we just applied.1:51:19 I applied, and they wanted us to apply for this.1:51:23 It was highly recommended that we apply, but I applied, and yeah, got the word the other day.1:51:30 Thank you for doing that.1:51:30 Congratulations.1:51:31 Thank you.1:51:32 Thank you.1:51:32 I look forward to hearing more.1:51:34 It's good.1:51:36 To have another business.1:51:38 Sure.1:51:39 And now that's where we are.1:51:41 Any other business?1:51:42 We usually don't have another business.1:51:43 That's why I didn't mean to cut you off.1:51:45 But this happened today.1:51:48 So it's within 48 hours.1:51:50 We got a notice from the Cushing Planning Board that they approved the PJ Keating site plan review process on October 1.1:52:01 So this letter came to my hands very late.1:52:04 So I just wanted the town to know and you to know that the decision was filed.1:52:13 And I've asked for a copy of the decision that was completed on October 8th, and the— which initiated the 20-day appeal period.1:52:25 So that only ends in 2 days.1:52:29 But, um, so I'm— I've emailed them to ask if the plans have changed since I saw them, because I looked, you know, pretty thoroughly at them.1:52:38 And I asked for a copy of the decision.1:52:40 I don't— I honestly can't think of why we would— any— like, why we would appeal anyway, because it's a use within the use.1:52:53 So, you know, they're changing.1:52:55 It's not— it's not— I don't really think it's like appealable.1:52:59 Um, so, but to be continued.1:53:05 I mean, if I see anything that's like a big red flag, I'll be happy to move on it.1:53:11 But I think I, I didn't— I didn't really have any concerns when I saw the, the only thing, you know, I did, and I'm glad they notified for Haven too, because they are moving their equipment closer to Haven.1:53:24 Yeah.1:53:25 So, and the Haven— still going to remain in the Kushna?1:53:29 Still, still in that footprint.1:53:31 But yeah, they moved it from the north side to the south side.1:53:34 Okay.1:53:35 And our planning board has also been following it as well.1:53:40 I mean, not our planning board, our Board of Health.1:53:42 Yeah.1:53:48 All right.1:53:50 That being said, that's, that's everything.1:53:51 Our next meeting is, should be November 10, 2026, at 6:30 PM.1:53:59 Motion to adjourn.1:54:03 Second.1:54:04 All in favor?1:54:05 Aye.
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